Serious questions here. I need help understanding:
Can feminism be pro-capitalist?
If it can be pro-capitalist, how is this anti-patriarchal?
If it is not anti-patriarchal, how is it feminist?
"REAL MEN DON’T RAPE!!!!!!!!11111!!111111!"
props my chin on my hands. stares u down. except they DO and that’s the fucking PROBLEM and trying to attack rape culture by using macho heteronormativity to shame dudes into not raping for fear of damaging their man cred (??????) rather than like, destroying attitudes that present women as sexual objects is like
not …. a solid strategy
Just gonna leave this here…
dont forget in the states :
100% of men can be drafted
0% of women can be drafted.
just gonna leave these here for you guys who are getting pissy over my ‘white privilege’ post
Now, I’m not all anti-social justice, but you certainly can’t ignore these facts.
But let’s take a guess as to why women generally are prohibited from serving on the front lines in warzones, and why they are discouraged from working in the industrial sector? Patriarchal expectations of appropriate roles for men and women based on gender.
Who commits the majority of homicides? Men.
Why are men more likely to commit suicide instead of seeking help for their problems? It’s those pesky patriarchal gender roles again, equating emotions with femininity and therefore weakness, which discourages men from talking about their problems.
As for the custody thing, the majority of custody decisions are agreements made between both parents, which again, are probably overdetermined by patriarchal assumptions about gender that paint women as being more nurturing and therefore better parents than men.
So, although the person who made this clearly wanted to argue that male privilege doesn’t exist, what they actually did was make a pretty good graphic illustrating the ways in which patriarchal expectations and structures within a society hurt men as well as women, which, since feminism is actually aimed at dismantling the patriarchy is why men also need feminism.
Reblogging for that comment
On my essay White Women’s Clueless and Callous Responses To My Experiences Dealing With Street Harassment, two comments were posted that I want to address.
A comment from daniphantomgone that I separated into smaller parts to address:It’s not obvious at all what “healthy interactions” entail and why. And since women don’t have to initiate sexual or romantic relationships it’s not something they have to think too much on.
This is false. Women spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about romantic relationships mainly because we are forced to, by our various cultures and by society at large. Even rejecting thinking about them is a source of scorn. Being single is a source of scorn. Women also pursue relationships since not every woman is heterosexual and not every heterosexual woman believes that they have to be pursued versus pursuing. The reason why some men cannot tell the difference between street harassment and pursuing a woman with respect is because of patriarchy and male privilege, not because such concepts have no actual differentiation. They do not have to try to be respectful if they do not choose to because of male privilege. Either way, women are required to be “thankful” for the attention, no matter how grotesque and abusive.
Educating men about that isn’t the same as educating white people on how not to be racist. One is an expression of a more fundamentally human need the other. There’s no necessary interaction or necessary existence of racism between white people and black people. I find that to be a false equivalent.
You conflate street harassment with heterosexual men’s human need to have sex with/be in relationships with heterosexual women. These are not the same activities anymore than rape is sex. Simply because they involve the same beings do not make them the same. In my post where I explained that I do not have to educate men on how to “pick up” women, I Don’t Discuss Street Harassment As A Leeway To Dating Advice For Men (which was also linked in the essay you commented on), I specifically discussed how recounting these experiences is not the time for so-called date coaching, not that men can’t ever be educated on interacting with women as human beings and not as objects. When I speak of specific incidents of street harassment and my emotions regarding this abuse, THAT IS NOT THE TIME TO EDUCATE MEN anymore than a Black person (which I also am) recounting a racist experience should stop, drop and educate Whites. The equivalence here is not false if the equivalence is based on what I actually wrote, not what you’ve assumed. (And even when not recounting an abusive situation, the onus on the oppressed to educate their oppressor remains a tool of the oppressor, despite the oppressor’s needs.)
In fact, when given examples of street/public harassment, I can actually spruce out the important distinctions between examples and turn that into practical advice for the guys. And usually tell the differences between flirts, bullying, contextually inappropriate come-ons, and when they’re combined.
Again, that might be what you want to do. However, no woman is obligated to turn speaking her truth about experiencing street harassment into a crash dating course for men. Ever. It is cruel and disgusting to expect this.
And when/why they’re not getting lost easily. As some of us are taught from parents and/or grandparents/older people that “he was persistent/I was persistent” and therefore they’re now happily married.
If a woman finds being persistently persued by a man who can’t take no for an answer to be “attractive,” that is her choice. (Might want to examine why she thinks this is “attractive.” Patriarchal socialization is a reasonable culprit.) Maybe some women’s goals do not include being “happily married.” And from your examples, I seriously doubt despite the male privilege involved in endlessly chasing a woman and expecting a “yes” no matter what, that it occurred via street harassment. Again, for you, these seem to be the same things. I know of women pursued (emails, letters, gifts, trying to be their “friend”) by guys (that they sometimes knew) that these women weren’t interested in, and it was annoying, but that falls under the Nice Guy™ trap (which can devolve into harassment or violence too); this is not the same as street harassment, however.
We REALLY need to sit down and work out interculturally considerate rules of engagement because many people don’t operate under the same set of sexual ethics or under (cultural) Christianity.
Again, because of patriarchal socialization, many men feel that street harassment is the same thing as dating and flirting. Because excuses are made for these men and because under no circumstance are they are held accountable, they can proceed this way. Yet magically, there are men who do not street harass either because they harass in other spheres (due to factors surrounding race/class privilege) or they don’t harass at all. And this weird idea that loving healthy relationships start with street harassment is comical. Yes there are differing cultural norms and engagement expectations that impact how men interact with women and how others perceive them. But this theoretical exercise of yours does not address what I actually wrote in the referenced essays nor the fact that of the men who do street harass me, most are same race, same class, similar religious upbringing (though now I am an atheist). In fact, like a lot of misogyny, a lot of it occurs intraracially and intraculturally. So it is not a question of culture per se (except for which women are harassed by which men). It is a question of patriarchy, patriarchal masculinity and male privilege.
A comment from valeriekeefe:
I think we should just have a Sadie Hawkins law for a decade or so, where it’s a felony (mandatory minimum security) for a man to ask a woman out. As the Swedes have shown, and as basic economic theory would suggest, criminalizing one side of the transaction still imposes a deadweight loss on the other side.
Let’s see what happens to dating behavior in the aftermath, and just how much behavior there’ll be to problematize.
So we’re really going to use supply/demand analogies for street harassment and also conflate street harassment with dating (which the actual men who street harass may do, as I alluded to in other writing on this topic, but those making excuses for them doing it as well speaks to the pervasiveness of patriarchy). I have never been “asked out” during street harassment. I have been asked out on dates before. I have had boyfriends before. I have been in love before. Magically none of it started with street harassment. WOW! The fact that people continue to conflate this abuse with dating is interesting. It let’s me know that they’ve probably never experienced street harassment. And I have. For twenty two years now.
I know what I am talking about in reference to street harassment. I understand that it is difficult for people who aren’t Black women to actually acknowledge what Black women KNOW, EXPERIENCE and WRITE. (Not saying that only Black women experience street harassment now, but it seems as if our recounting of it is the most questioned or the most ignored.) However, I know what I am talking about here. For further reading on this topic, visit my essay list on street harassment or the general tag “street harassment" on Gradient Lair (as some essays were posted after the essay list was made.)
Before trying to “school” people on what they actually experience and know, and treating their lives as theoretical exercises (which dehumanizes, by the way) consider the fact that you may genuinely be wrong. Consider the fact that there might be an area or topic that they actually know more about and more acutely than you do.
Men, it is said, do not express their feelings—or if men do, they do so only with great difficulty. Both women and men believe that men are unemotive and unemotional, that inside men’s tender psyches is a wellspring of feelings, stonewalled and speechless. Men respect and fear other men whose feelings are undisclosed and well defended. Women also respect and fear such men whose feelings lie dormant beneath a permafrost of mastery. And women who live with them implore them privately to emote just a little, begging them to say what they are feeling, begging them to warm. But men do not express their feelings. Or so the story goes.
In fact, throughout history, men as a class have always expressed their feelings, eloquently and extensively: Men have expressed their feelings about women, death, and absent fathers and turned those feelings into religions. Men have expressed their feelings about women, wealth, possession, and territory and turned those feelings into laws and nation-states. Men have expressed their feelings about women, murder, and the masculinity of other men and from those feelings forged battalions and detonable devices. Men have expressed their feelings about women, fucking, and female rage against subjection and formed those feelings into psychiatry. Men have institutionalized their feel ings, so that whether or not a particular man is feeling the feeling at a particular time, the feeling is being expressed through the institutions men have made.
Things like this upset me.
First, with the “she’s either” automatically puts women in one of these seven categories. Way to assume. Plus, this list explicitly disregards countless other options from: “she doesn’t feel like talking,” (a girl, not feeling like talking????!!!) to “she’s TIRED.” But no, women can’t choose to not speak, there MUST be something wrong!
Because if a girl overthinks something, she’s suddenly “dangerous,” and because men don’t overthink anything.
“2. Tired of Waiting”
This list makes it appear like it’s the girl’s fault she’s silent. Yeah, if you make anyone’s ass wait long enough they may be frustrated.
“3. About to blow up”
Typical, “oh she’s going to blow up,” also known as, “she’s about to have emotions.” Emotions that are most likely warranted. Emotions that will come out to which the other person will reply “you’re overreacting,” “you’re crazy,” or “calm down, it’s just a joke” thus making the girl feel like her emotions are irrational (when in reality, they’re probably not). An excellent case of gaslighting, emotional manipulation. Or, emotions that will come out passive-aggressive because of years or gaslighting.
“4. Needs a hug”
Perhaps, but I wouldn’t want some man thinking he’s doing me a huge favor, a charity, by giving me a hug. Maybe if it’s genuine. All I’m saying is: don’t assume, don’t feel entitled. Do it out of real concern.
“5. Falling Apart”
Similar to three except three was referencing more toward anger, this towards sadness.
“6. Crying inside”
Ah, years of emotional manipulation tread on a person so much so that they can’t properly communicate how their feelings! Imagine that! How dangerous!
“7. All the above”
If all that is not enough, the “True, totally true” part is clearly meant to be a girl vindicating this list on behalf of our gender. Furthermore, the pink font is the final touch to make it 100% girly truth. On top of that, this list makes the guy the victim, about to be the prey of some attack from the girl once she finally speaks or the hero, that comes and hugs her, if she is upset. Fuck this bullshit.
This garbage, it irks me so.
…may well be just the thing that is holding us Saami back from the advancement of our own fucking liberation and social interests within our own communities. Not because it looks bad to the oppressors, but because it just cripples any social justice movement from within faster than a battle axe….